Serikzhan Mauletbai: I’m not surprised that they followed me

The news that in Kazakhstan, the authorities were monitoring journalists, activists and politicians with the help of Pegasus program, had the effect of a bomb. Especially after not only journalists and human rights activists, but also the country’s Prime Minister Askar Mamin, Mayor of Almaty Bakytzhan Sagintayev (who previously held the post of Prime Minister) and the current President of the republic, Kassym-Zhomart Tokayev, were on the list of persons who were being followed.

Information, that the authorities of several countries use Pegasus to spy on their citizens, was published by the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) and journalists from 17 world media outlets, including the Guardian and the Washington Post.

Pegasus is software developed by the Israeli cyber intelligence company “NSO Group”. The program hacked the victims’ smartphones and downloaded any information from them. In addition, it allowed remote audio and video recording.

The list of those, who were being followed, included over 50 thousand people from more than 11 countries – India, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE, Mexico, Morocco, Rwanda, Togo, Hungary, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and others. Among them there are about 200 journalists. In Kazakhstan, according to the investigation, 2,000 telephones were monitored. At the moment, only 8 names from this huge list are known: President of Kazakhstan Kassym-Zhomart Tokayev; Prime Minister Askar Mamin; Mayor of Almaty Bakytzhan Sagintayev; Vice President of the French party “Génération Ecologie”, founder of the non-governmental organization “Cosmopolitan Project Foundation” (which organized events for fugitive Kazakh oppositionist Mukhtar Ablyazov) Quentin Gilman and his associate – employee of the French humanitarian organization Martin Vuillem; Kazakhstani human rights activist, head of the non-governmental organization “Ar.Rukh.Khak” Bakytzhan Toregozhina; journalist, former editor-in-chief of the newspaper “Central Asia Monitor” Bigeldy Gabdullin and famous journalist Serikzhan Mauletbai, who actively criticizes government agencies, demanding that they be more open to the media. In addition, Mauletbai recently launched his own Telegram channel “БЕСсимптомно” [“Symptom-free”], where he publishes various information inconvenient for the authorities, including about rallies.

In an interview with ACCA, Serikzhan Mauletbai admitted that he wasn’t at all surprised to find his name on the list of those who were being followed by Pegasus. It should be noted that the interview was conducted by telephone. During the conversation, some noises and interference were constantly heard, and when one uncomfortable question was asked, the connection was completely cut off. This all suggests that the journalist’s phone is still being tapped.

– Serikzhan, how did you know that your name is on this list?

– I work on the news channel and, despite the fact that it was a day off, I followed the news briefs. I saw that information appeared about the first names of Kazakhstanis from this list. I followed the link and saw my last name first.

– What emotions did you experience at that time?

– None at all. This wasn’t surprising to me. Our work, whatever one may say, is associated with such costs as surveillance, wiretapping, and so on.

– You are a well-known journalist raising and covering topical issues, but you cannot be called an opposition journalist. Why are you on this list?

– The entire list hasn’t yet been announced. It’s quite possible that there are other Kazakh journalists in it as well. However, I guess I ended up on this list, because I support many non-governmental organizations. And I constantly advocate for freedom of speech and for improving the work of journalists. In addition, I actively covered the recent elections, I wrote about the illegality of the decision of the Central Election Commission (CEC) to restrict the work of observers. And even the head of the Central Election Commission, Berik Imashev, spoke about my material for almost 40 minutes during his speech, stating that I was wrong.

– No one can simply establish surveillance of someone. This requires a signal from above. From whom, in your opinion, could there have been a sanction so that they began to follow you? If not personally, then at least from which state body?

– I don’t know. But I am sure that in Kazakhstan all journalists, who are actively working and asking uncomfortable questions, are being tapped.

– This list also includes Sagintayev, Mamin and Tokayev …

– Yes, OCCRP initially stated that journalists, of course, are on this list, but mostly politicians and businessmen.

– Who, in your opinion, could afford to follow the first person of the state?

– We don’t know in what years the wiretapping was. It’s possible that Tokayev could have been monitored and tapped even before he became president. In addition, it’s possible that Tokayev wasn’t spied on. OCCRP doesn’t claim that the people on this list were 100% bugged. They simply said that these people were on the lists of this Israeli company, and it’s likely that they were being tapped. That is, they don’t assert, but only assume.

– Have you noticed any signs that your phone had spyware?

– I noticed that my phone runs out very quickly. It started to glitch, and sometimes there is an echo. But I didn’t pay attention to it. I want to emphasize that I have nothing to hide. I work legally, I don’t commit any illegal actions. Of course, it would be unpleasant for me if my personal correspondence came out in the public field. But, based on my work, I think that it’s possible.

– Nevertheless, I would like to understand: this wiretapping, if it took place, is connected with your journalistic activities or with participation in various journalistic associations, such as the Guild of Judicial Reporters and the League of Judicial Journalists?

– I think both. Despite the fact that I work for a media loyal to the authorities, officials nevertheless stress when I come to press conferences, ask questions and demand an answer. If we recall the previous years, when Dauren Abaev was still the Minister of Information, then the rules for accrediting journalists were adopted. At that time, my colleagues and I worked together to ensure that these rules were not adopted, since they, in fact, were directed against journalists. Later, already under the Minister of Information Aida Balaeva, I also took part in the discussion of these rules. With the help of dialogue, we managed to soften all these rules in favor of journalists. However, there are still some nuances in them that need to be canceled.

– Usually, if as a result of surveillance it wasn’t possible to find some compromising evidence, they go to the journalist’s bosses and put pressure on them, so that they, in turn, put pressure on their employees. Either they start to intimidate or bribe themselves. Have you had this?

– They often tried to bribe me …

– Have you received any threats?

– No, there were no threats. I believe that they haven’t reached this yet, since I have a large number of subscribers on social networks. In addition, our editorial office actively protects its employees. Therefore, I think they will not dare to take such a step. There were attempts to bribe, but somehow as a joke …

– You wrote on social networks that you intend to send a request to the government and the presidential administration. Surely your request will either be ignored, or they will answer that this whole investigation and all these accusations are unfounded. What will be your next actions?

– First of all, I’ll wait for an answer. In addition, we shouldn’t forget that this list includes officials from Nur-Sultan and Almaty. And I would like to see their reaction to this investigation. If the President and Prime Minister don’t take any action, then all my appeals will be useless. However, I don’t exclude that I will contact international human rights organizations in this regard.

– Are you going to move in this direction yourself, or will you join forces with others from this list?

– So far, there have been no motions from other persons to join efforts. If they are, then we will think. At the moment, there is me and there is my editorial office. In our editorial office, we haven’t yet discussed a plan for further actions in this regard. But I think that inquiries to the presidential administration and to the government will come both from me personally and from my editorial office.